Sari Swears Podcast: The Conversation You Must Have with Jurors

You might be asking the wrong questions.

Not bad ones.

Just ones that never get past small talk.

And if that’s happening in your voir dire… you’re missing the moment where jurors actually connect.

Because connection doesn’t come from:

“Where are you from?”

“What do you do?”

“Have you ever…?”

It comes from something deeper.

From getting jurors to talk about what they value and actually staying there long enough for it to mean something.

Most attorneys don’t do this.

Not because they don’t care… but because they’ve never been shown how.

And that gap? It shows up later in your damages.

Coach K and I break all of this down in this week’s podcast:

What a resonant conversation actually is
Why it changes the way jurors see your case
And how to start shifting your questions (without it feeling forced or awkward)

If your jury feels a little disconnected… this is likely why.

Love,
Sari

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“What we're really wanting from our jurors is to invest in the process. And the best time to do that is in voir dire — when they can talk about themselves and what they value… because at its core, what our plaintiff attorneys are fighting for are human values, things that we all care about. And that's what was taken in every single case.”
sari de la motte

TRANSCRIPTION

Sari de la Motte:

And the system of court makes it seem very unhuman and very cold and calculated and a thought experiment and there's rules and evidence and the judge in the scary black robe. But at its core, what our plaintiff attorneys are fighting for are human values.

You're listening to Sari swear on the Sari Swears podcast. Well, welcome everyone to another episode of Sari Swears. Coach K is back in the podcast studio, and we're going to be talking about the one conversation you must have with jurors if you want big verdicts or big damages at trial. Well, welcome Coach K.

Coach K:

Thank you for welcoming me. I feel very welcome.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. Well, I'm so glad. And you have your clash shirt on.

Coach K:

Yep, try to change out the shirts and keep it interesting.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. So the reason why you're here is because we're talking about a very specific type of conversation, one that you and I learned in our coaching journey and that we have now been teaching our clients to do. And we're going to talk today about what that is, how to do it, and why it's so important.

So what we're talking about is what's called a resonant conversation. And resonance coming from the musical term, right? So when something musical is resonant, it's vibrating, it's landing. And that's the way we want to think about it in terms of this conversation, is a conversation that really lands with somebody, it's a meaningful conversation, and it doesn't have to be necessarily positive, but it's something that's meaningful. So describe a little bit for us what that looks like in terms of a resonant conversation.

Coach K:

Well, yeah. I mean, generally what it looks like is you hone in on something where someone's talking about that they sound like they're interested or their voice gets a little bit lighter, they sound like they're excited about something or they like it. And you start asking questions around that, but open-ended questions, not close-ended questions like what and how questions to get them to really resonate and expand on that topic.

Sari de la Motte:

And what do our clients usually do instead of having resonant conversations in voir dire?

Coach K:

Close-ended questions.

Sari de la Motte:

Close-ended questions and information-gathering, yep. And so give us an example of the difference between a resonant question versus information-gathering.

Coach K:

The resonant question is, what's that like, what's important about that?

Sari de la Motte:

How important is that to you?

Coach K:

How important is that? Those very open-ended questions that get people to really expand on what they were saying. Whereas close-ended is just yes and no, it's very quick, it's abrupt one-word answer.

Sari de la Motte:

Information-gathering, what kinds of questions would we hear there?

Coach K:

Information-gathering would be like, okay, what's your name, where are you from, how many pairs of shoes do you have?

Sari de la Motte:

God, I couldn't even begin to answer that.

Coach K:

That's why I looked at your shoes and I thought that I asked that question because I ...

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, so that could be resonant.

Coach K:

Gut check: how many pairs of shoes do you have? What's the number?

Sari de la Motte:

50-plus ...

Coach K:

Oh, my God.

Sari de la Motte:

... probably. But see, that could be resonant because I really love my shoes.

Coach K:

That's true, that's true.

Sari de la Motte:

But yeah, where were you born? Those kinds of ... Where do you live, what year did you start practicing law? Those are all information-gathering questions.

Coach K:

Even like what sport you play, but they're not asking about the sport, just finding out that information.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. So we're going to model both the right way to do it and the wrong way to do it in just a minute. But before we get there, why is it so important that attorneys have resonant conversations versus information-gathering questions with their people, with their jurors?

Coach K:

Well, I mean, you get the people talking and you get the people talking about themselves, and people love to talk about themselves. And they get invested, when they're talking about themselves and you're interested, they're invested in whatever's going on because they want to know what's next.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. I think the big thing here too is we talk a lot about how resonant conversations immediately connect with non-economic damages because those are the hard damages to have. And so when you have these conversations with jurors about what they value, that's the way we have the resonant conversation, and they start talking about their family or their hobbies or their work, they start to get it, it starts to sink in about how important these things really are versus when we have these surface-level conversations and then later we're talking about whether an opening or closing about the non-economic harms, it becomes a thought exercise. It's not real.

Coach K:

Yeah. I mean, when you get people in touch with their emotions ... I've been reading this book called Your Survival Instinct is Killing You. And it's all about the amygdala and the oldest part of the brain, but then also the prefrontal cortex. But when you get people talking about emotional things and they get invested emotionally, it makes it easier for them to make more abstract decisions.

Sari de la Motte:

Really?

Coach K:

Yep.

Sari de la Motte:

Does it say why?

Coach K:

A lot of it has to do with the fact that you get that investment piece. You get invested, and then once you've decided, you make that decision and you say it out in front of everyone else. It's pretty set in stone. So they say it. And I mean, even if they say it and that maybe they change their mind a little bit later, they've said it in front of a group. It's very hard for them to change, turn that around.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes, for sure, which is Cialdini's Influence. And I think also when we're talking about investment from our jurors, I mean, there's a reason why we can't do the golden rule, right? Because it's so powerful to be like, "Well, what if this was you?" But when we have our jurors talking about things that they value and then we hear later in trial about the things that the plaintiff lost, there's an immediate connection there without us having to make it. And yet we are not actually having these conversations. Why, why do you think our attorneys are not having resonant conversations? I think there's a few reasons, but what would you say?

Coach K:

Fear.

Sari de la Motte:

Fear. Say more.

Coach K:

Scared of being vulnerable, scared of being objected to, scared of saying the wrong thing, scared of the jurors going to think they're creepy as fuck. Fill in the blank.

Sari de la Motte:

And are they? Is a resonant conversation creepy?

Coach K:

No. I mean, I guess it can be if you ask some creepy questions, but I don't ... And then that wouldn't be resonant, I don't think, maybe.

Sari de la Motte:

What do you like to do with your body?

Coach K:

That's exactly what I was thinking of. Oh, hopefully that person is listening to this episode.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, yeah. That's an inside joke, sorry. But I also think they don't know how. Honestly, I don't think they know how. I mean, I think all of us in life have resonant conversations, but until ... You and I went to coaching, we didn't know how to, I wouldn't say force that to happen, but allow it to happen with the right things to do. So I think part of it is fear, for sure, because I think a big part of the fear piece is that they are trained, if they are trained at all, in exclusionary voir dire. So there's really no need for resonant conversation in an exclusionary voir dire.

Coach K:

Nope.

Sari de la Motte:

Right? So all you're doing in exclusionary voir dire is going in and going, "Who are the people that are not for me?"

Coach K:

Yeah, these are my enemies. Let's get them off, attack them.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, let's make sure that we're asking questions that will talk them off the jury so that I don't have to use my peremptories on them. So I think it's a very different approach to jury selection when we say, "Hey, you need to be having resonant conversations with your jury, especially if you want to get the bigger damages." Because how would you say resonant conversations actually lead to bigger damage awards? Or I don't like the word awards, jury returning a bigger damage.

Coach K:

I think anytime you get someone invested in their heart space, something that really, really matters to them, even if it is a conversation related to them at the beginning in jury selection, but you get them in that space and you can keep connecting that throughout trial, that's that investment, that's what make the damages go up. And especially if you're speaking directly to them, like the trial dialogue and things of that nature where you're in the opening statement and you're saying the words they said back to them, all these things just, oh, yeah, get them more and more invested.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes, because if we go back to the idea that jurors are hostages and they don't want to be there and they don't have any investment in this, they're like, "What do I have to do, and how do I do it and so I can get out of here?" What we're really wanting from our jurors is to invest in the process. And the best time to invest in the process is in voir dire. Why? Because they can talk about themselves and what they value and their families and all of the things that are ...

We say so often, and I think our plaintiff attorneys forget this, that what they're doing is a very human endeavor. And the system of court makes it seem very unhuman and very cold and calculated and a thought experiment and there's rules and evidence and the judge in the scary black robe. But at its core, what our plaintiff attorneys are fighting for are human values, things that we all care about. And that's what was taken in every single case.

Now, the distasteful part about it is that we now have to put a money piece to it, we have to attach that money piece, and that's a huge obstacle that they have to overcome. But one way that they can overcome that or begin to overcome that is to have these resonant conversations.

So let's kind of model, and we've never done this before, and I thought this might be a fun exercise for our listeners, an information or kind of flat conversation, information-gathering, and then we'll do a resonant one. And we're not going to do it with the law at first. We'll do it with law in just a minute where I'll be the lawyer and you'll be the juror. But right now I'm going to be a client of yours and you're going to be the coach. And let's do it the wrong way so it's non-resonant, all right?

Coach K:

Hey, sorry. How are you doing?

Sari de la Motte:

I'm okay.

Coach K:

Okay. You're okay? All right. Yeah, what have you been doing today?

Sari de la Motte:

Before we came to this, I was working on putting together all of the furniture and tech purchases and things that you've been helping me with for our accountant because we bought so much last year, and I'm really hoping that it's going to help us with taxes, but it's grueling.

Coach K:

Oh, boy. So it's a big number, huh?

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah.

Coach K:

Yeah? Okay. You're going to tell me what that number is, you might ask?

Sari de la Motte:

I don't know what it is yet, and I'm still working on it, yeah.

Coach K:

Yeah. Sounds like it's going to take you a lot of time [inaudible 00:10:17].

Sari de la Motte:

It is going to take me a lot of time.

Coach K:

Okay. When do you think you're going to finish it?

Sari de la Motte:

Gosh, I don't know. It's several more hours.

Coach K:

Several more hours?

Sari de la Motte:

For sure.

Coach K:

Okay. Yeah, man, that sounds like it could be several more hours. Could it go into tomorrow too?

Sari de la Motte:

Well, we're leaving tomorrow, so I hope not.

Coach K:

Okay.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah.

Coach K:

All right. Well, what do you think you're going to have to do to make sure that you can get it done in time?

Sari de la Motte:

I don't know. I'm going to have to look at my schedule. Oh, my God, I'm boring myself, if not our listeners, right?

Coach K:

Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

So a lot of, "Well, what are you doing? How are you doing it? How long is it going to take you?"

Coach K:

And problem-solving.

Sari de la Motte:

Problem-solving is just, that's how we don't want to have those conversations. So we're going to take the same topic, but now Kevin's going to move it to a more resonant conversation, meaning something that lands with me, something that's meaningful because I just came out of that, I don't want to talk about that. And even if I did want to talk about it, it's still not meaningful. Yeah. All right.

Coach K:

Sorry. How are you today?

Sari de la Motte:

I'm okay.

Coach K:

Okay. Your voice didn't sound like you're that okay.

Sari de la Motte:

I mean, I am. I'm tired because I have this big project where I'm putting all these numbers together and orders from last year, all the stuff that we bought for the H2HQ to get over to the accountant. So it's just a lot, and we're leaving tomorrow, so I want to get it done before then.

Coach K:

Oh, boy. Leaving tomorrow, where are you going tomorrow?

Sari de la Motte:

We're going to the beach.

Coach K:

Yeah, going to the beach. That sounds a lot different than what you've been doing.

Sari de la Motte:

It is, it is very different. I mean, I just ... Yeah, I don't love these financial ... I want to get away from this totally, of ever having to do this again.

Coach K:

What would it be like if you could get away from it just right now?

Sari de la Motte:

It would be amazing. I mean, I'm training someone to do this for me, but just this morning we found out that Quicken doesn't work except for one computer, and so there's a whole other problem. But once we actually figure this out, I'm hoping to step back and continue step back and work a three-day week eventually.

Coach K:

Wow. What would that be like if you worked a three-day week?

Sari de la Motte:

It's a dream of mine. It would be amazing. I would just come in and work with clients, my Masterminds, and teach in my Command the Courtrooms. I mean, that's the dream where that's all I'm doing and not building a business.

Coach K:

This sounds like very important work to you.

Sari de la Motte:

It is. I feel like I've been kind of doing that, of course, but then also trying to run a business at the same time. And it's just getting to the point where we're growing so much that I can't do both.

Coach K:

Yeah. So what if you didn't have to run the business, you could just do this important work?

Sari de la Motte:

That would be amazing.

Coach K:

Yeah? What would it look like? What would your days look like doing this kind of work, that's it?

Sari de la Motte:

I mean, just creative, being in a creative space, being able to put all of my effort into the work that I bring on my podcast, to my clients, all of it.

Coach K:

Wow. You bring this to your clients. How important are your clients to you?

Sari de la Motte:

I love my clients. I particularly love my Masterminds, but I love all my clients. I love all my fans, all the people who listen to podcasts.

Coach K:

Wow.

Sari de la Motte:

All right. So notice how that's a different conversation. It's getting me thinking about the things that are meaningful.

Now, let's show you how this plays out in trial. So in trial, what I hear happens is something like this. So you're a manager, is that correct?

Coach K:

Mm-hmm.

Sari de la Motte:

How many people do you manage?

Coach K:

Just one person.

Sari de la Motte:

Just one person. Okay. And what's your management style?

Coach K:

I'm kind of like a manager. I like to be the person that shows and does, but then also can mentor and help that person along in that way.

Sari de la Motte:

And how long have you been managing?

Coach K:

Oh, wow, maybe about 15 years, something like that.

Sari de la Motte:

Right. So not a very interesting conversation.

Coach K:

No.

Sari de la Motte:

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Sari de la Motte:

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Okay. So now we're going to move to what we teach our clients, which is the price versus value conversation. And this is how we differentiate for our jurors, and they love this because it makes so much sense to them, the difference between economic damages and non-economic damages. Economic damages come with a price tag, right? There's bills, receipts, invoices. They're going to get all that, and they can determine how much there was a cost of things here in this case. But non-economic damages don't come with a price tag, but that doesn't mean they don't have value.

Now, before we tell jurors that their job is to put a price tag on the things that have value, we're going to ask them ... Or we tell them that they're going to do that, but not how yet. We're going to ask them the things that they value in their world. So here's what a resonant conversation might look like.

So you raised your hand, sir, that you have things in your life that you value that don't come with a price tag. What's one of the things?

Coach K:

My daughter.

Sari de la Motte:

Your daughter. How old is your daughter?

Coach K:

She's 10. She's going to be 11 next month.

Sari de la Motte:

Oh, my goodness. So what do you love about your daughter?

Coach K:

Oh, my God, what do I not love about my daughter? She's incredible. She's artistic and funny and playful and just ... You can't be in a bad mood around my daughter.

Sari de la Motte:

Why not? Why can't you be in a bad mood around your daughter?

Coach K:

Because even when she's in a bad mood, it ends up being funny or something, but she is just this absolute light, she's just this bright light of fun and joy.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, I hear a lot of fun coming from that. What are some of the fun things you guys do together?

Coach K:

Oh, well, I mean, a lot of it's just goofing around. My daughter's the one that likes to just pose something silly, and then we just get into this huge conversation about something that's completely fictitious, doesn't make any sense, but we can talk for hours about it. She'd make a great coach right now.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. She asks good questions?

Coach K:

She asks great questions, she really does.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. And what is it like having those deep conversations with her?

Coach K:

Oh, it's the best. I can't think of anything that's better. If I have a day where maybe it was kind of tough and I come home and start talking to her, it instantly changes.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah.

Coach K:

Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, she sounds like a bright light in your life.

Coach K:

She really is.

Sari de la Motte:

Notice the difference in that conversation. And even those of you who are attempting to have these resonant conversations will do something like this, which doesn't get us to where we want.

So you said, sir, you have something that you value. What's something that you value that doesn't come with a price tag?

Coach K:

My daughter.

Sari de la Motte:

Thank you. And you over here? That's it, right? That's still information-gathering. Even though we're asking about what somebody values, it's still information-gathering.

So when we're talking about these resonant conversations, let's teach our attorneys how to actually do it. So how do you start a resonant conversation, would you say? And I like to think of this as two halves, kind of what you're doing to start it and then what you're doing while they're talking. So let's talk about the first part. How do you start a resonant conversation?

Coach K:

You start it with what questions.

Sari de la Motte:

What or how, yes, yeah.

Coach K:

You can get to how, but how can be a bit in the doing space so that you get to that. But I like to always start with what because it's an open-ended, wide, expansive question. And then once you start getting to figuring out what to do next, that's when you get asked more questions.

Sari de la Motte:

So in this case, we've given you your question, which is, what is something you value without a price tag, right? And that really gets people thinking.

Now, they normally will give you one-word answers. That's what we see all the time. So they'll say something like, "My daughter," or, "My family." So what's the next step?

Coach K:

Once you've asked what ...

Sari de la Motte:

Well, the ones that give you that one-word answer.

Coach K:

Yeah. Well, first off, when whatever they're saying, generally if you're asking them a question like, "What do you value?" The thing that they say, you're going to hear something in their voice energetically that's different than just some kind of information-gathering thing. So even when I said, "My daughter." I didn't say, "My daughter." Maybe they would, but generally speaking, if it's something that they value, you'll hear that more open sound, and you follow that. You go, "Oh." And you match it. I mean, you can match that energy, and then they feel seen.

Sari de la Motte:

And then you can also follow up with another question, right?

Coach K:

Another question?

Sari de la Motte:

What do you value about your daughter?

Coach K:

Yeah, what do you value about ... What's that like?

Sari de la Motte:

What's that like being with her?

Coach K:

Oh, man.

Sari de la Motte:

Right, exactly. Yes.

Coach K:

And stuff ... adding in, "Oh, man, wow." Be emotive.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, that's the facial-tracking that we talk about, right? So we have two types of tracking that we talk about. One is you're tracking the conversation. And so I think this is another place where a lot of our attorneys go wrong. They'll say, "What do you value about your daughter?" Which is the dig-in piece, right? So that's that second piece. It's like once they give you this one-word answer, you have to dig in a little bit. "What do you value about your daughter? What do you love about your daughter?" And so as they are giving that answer, if they're like, "Well, she's just the love of my life, and I just love everything. When I come home, she just makes my whole day brighter." And you just have this face that's ...

Coach K:

Stone face.

Sari de la Motte:

... not tracking it at all, it's weird.

Coach K:

It is weird.

Sari de la Motte:

Or if they're talking about something sad and you don't have a sad face, it's weird.

Coach K:

Yeah. If you're like, get this happy face while they're talking about something sad.

Sari de la Motte:

So part of the resonant conversation is you're participating in it. And so your face and your gestures should match what you're hearing like, "Oh," or, "Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that's terrible." So there's the facial-tracking, but there's also the tracking of the conversation. So I was listening to what you were saying, and instead of trying to come up with a different question, I was either repeating, "Well, it sounds like she's such a bright light. How is she a bright light? How does she show up that way?" So I'm taking what you're saying and I'm continuing the conversation, because I think what a lot of times attorneys will do is they're like, "I just got to come up with another great question." And it may be a great question, but it's not where the person was at.

Coach K:

It'll throw them off. They may be in resonance, and then you ask a question that's out in left field, and they're like, "Um, well, I lost my train of thought. That's not really what we were talking about, but okay."

Sari de la Motte:

It kind of stops them, and they're like, "Oh, well this." It takes them kind of out of resonance. And so the first half of this conversation is to start with a question. Once they give you that one-word answer, dig in with another one, "What do you value about your family?" And they might say, "Well, they're very supportive." "Oh, tell me about a time they supported you." You're tracking it, which is the third thing, right? So ask that question, dig in, and then track them as they're speaking. How about on the other side? As they're talking, what should you be doing?

Coach K:

Well, you should be listening to them.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes, but we have three levels of listening.

Coach K:

That's right.

Sari de la Motte:

So tell our listeners about the three levels.

Coach K:

Okay. There's three levels of listening. Level one is what's going on in your head, it's that inner dialogue. That's level one. Level two is that conversation bubble, it's you listening to someone that's across from you, and it's the two of you and you're listening to them.

Sari de la Motte:

Kind of how we think about listening in general.

Coach K:

Exactly, yeah. And then level three is what's going on in the room, it's atmospheric. It's when you go into a room and two people have just been fighting, but they stop, but there's this weird energy in the room, it's that kind of thing.

Sari de la Motte:

I kind of think about the atmosphere or what's in the atmosphere.

Coach K:

What's in the atmosphere?

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, yeah. So what levels of listening should we be primarily in in this resonant conversation?

Coach K:

Level two.

Sari de la Motte:

And level three.

Coach K:

And level three.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, yeah. So we don't want to be in our head because that's where we're trying to come up with the next best question. And I think when you just are flowing with someone, you'll know what to ask next.

Coach K:

Well, and there's also a way that it helps self-manage too, is that if ... I mean, we're humans. If you do veer off and you start to wander, you can remember these and go, "Wait a minute, I'm going to level one. I need to be back in two." It's a good way to keep you in check.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. And the other thing that we talk a lot about, especially in our in-person seminars, we have an exercise around this, is that people can tell when you go to your level one. They know that you've left the conversation. Even if you're still nodding and looking at them ...

Coach K:

It's the stone face.

Sari de la Motte:

... but if you're in your head, they get it. They're like, "Hello, you're not listening to me anymore."

So again, to have a resonant conversation, you want to ask your question, and we've given it to you: What is something you value that doesn't come with a price tag? They're going to give you a one-word answer in jury selection particularly. So the next step is to dig in: What do you value about your daughter? Or what do you value about your health? And then as they start talking, you're going to track them and say, "Say more about that. Oh, that sounds interesting. Well, what happened there?" And you're going to continue to keep them in resonance by tracking them.

And while you're doing this, which I guess is the second half of it, you're listening at level two and three. You're intensely there with them and also kind of picking up what's not being said and what needs to be asked.

Now again, the reason why we do this is because this connects our jurors to our damages argument because our damages argument is always about humans and the human condition, right? It's always about families or losing your ability to do what you love or losing the ability to do a job that you loved and make money for your family, losing the ability to be there if it's a death case. And so when we have these resonant conversations, it connects them to the damages argument, and it invests them in that.

And as you were saying when we were talking about this too, it also impacts their decision-making, right? Because the minute that we bring in that emotional component, that also helps. As we've said, one of the biggest things with plaintiff attorneys is we need to compel people to act. And so it helps motivate them to do something.

Coach K:

Well, and we're motivated all the time by emotion out of fear or urgency. So it's a come from. So if you can help them get in an emotional space with what you're talking about, then that comes from, it just makes it ... It's like an easy button.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes, yes. Because now they've connected with something that resonates for them, and so they're more primed to connect with what resonates with our plaintiff, which is almost all the time very similar to the stories they've just told us. But you have to dig in.

Now, if you're an attorney and you're listening to this and you're like, "But," all the things we said earlier, "that's creepy, that's not a good use of voir dire time. What if I get objected to?" Listen, people love talking about themselves, as Kevin said. We've seen so many mock jurors come through here who some of our ... even our outliers who talk so much or don't listen to people around them, we've had to use management with them. What we recognize is that nobody listens to them. And this is one time where we have this intense attorney listening to them, and that's one reason.

So people love talking about themselves, and people also love talking about things that are meaningful. And so we've never seen this unless it's a weird question where people are like, "Why are you asking me these questions?" They go there. And especially with our objections, I've never seen an objection to a resonant conversation. I just haven't. I mean, we're there to talk to jurors about their life experiences. If anything in the H2H method, I would think this is the least objectionable thing, wouldn't you say?

Coach K:

Yeah, it's so weird that you would object to facilitating a good conversation. It just blows my mind, but okay.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, yeah. So here's the last thing I'll end on in terms of, we've told you why you should have these conversations and we've told you how to have these conversations. And the last thing I will leave you with is these conversations are really awesome. They're fun to have. They're some of the best parts of jury selection. They connect not only the jurors to each other because they've heard their personal stories, but they connect the jury to you because you've been listening to them talk about real, meaningful things. Don't skip this. So many people skip this, and they're just trying to go after those challenges. And we just think it's a waste of time.

You still have time for that in the H2H method, by the way. But this is where it really becomes real and what this case is really about, and it makes it about human values. And that's why these are so important. And that it's going to absolutely increase your damages.

Coach K:

Yeah. Well, and a point to already knowing how to do this is that a lot of you do this with your clients. So if you know how to do this with your clients, there's this disconnect that happens because you're trying to kick them off or whatever you're doing with the exclusionary, but you have it in you, you know how to do this.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes, absolutely.

Coach K:

It's just a matter of bringing it in with the jurors.

Sari de la Motte:

Or you don't. And here you can also use this with your clients, right? And that's where you can practice resonant conversations because you're going to get great stuff with your clients.

All right. Well, that's it for us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. We'll talk to you next week.

If you enjoyed that conversation, you can download how to have a resonant conversation at sariswears.com/resonance, R-E-S-O-N-A-N-C-E.

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