Sari Swears Podcast: Why Trial Lawyers Operate Like They Have ADHD

You ever feel like your brain just… won’t cooperate? 😣

You’re overwhelmed.

You’re reactive.

You’re exhausted by 3:00 PM.

You can’t focus the way you know you should be able to.

And then you beat yourself up for it.

In this week’s podcast, Coach K and I are talking about something that might hit closer to home than you expect:

Why SO many trial lawyers operate like they have ADHD (even if they don’t).

We break down:

👉🏽 What actually happens when your prefrontal cortex gets hijacked
👉🏽 Why chronic stress mirrors ADHD symptoms
👉🏽 The connection between overwhelm, impulse control, and addiction
👉🏽 The three things you can start doing immediately to get your brain back online

If you’ve ever thought: “Why can’t I just get it together?”

This episode is for YOU.

Tune in NOW! 🎧

Love,
Sari

👉🏽 Kevins ADHD Coach: https://lyndahoffman.com/

➡️Listen on Spotify

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“The brain fog and overwhelm that happens with ADHD — it takes so much more work just to do basic tasks. By the end of the day, you’re exhausted. And there are a lot of times where you’re just tapping out like, ‘I can’t do this anymore.’ That can feed addiction or whatever coping mechanism you reach for. And it’s very reminiscent of an attorney, because trial attorneys have that same brain fog, that same fatigue, that same overwhelm because of their jobs — even if they don’t have ADHD.”
Coach K

Transcription

Coach K:

The brain fog thing and overwhelm that happens with ADHD just because it takes so much more work for us to just do a lot of basic tasks. And by the end of the day, you're exhausted throughout the day. And there's a lot of times where you're just tapping, "I can't do this anymore." And that can feed addiction or whatever.

Sari de la Motte:

Or fights.

Coach K:

Yeah, but it also, it's-

Sari de la Motte:

Because you're so spent by the end of the day.

Coach K:

Oh, yeah. And it's very reminiscent of an attorney, because an attorney has the brain fog and the fatigue and the overwhelm because of their jobs even if they don't have ADHD, and then they are more prone to addiction.

Sari de la Motte:

You're listening to Sari de la Motte on the Sari de la Mottes Podcast. Well, welcome everyone to another episode of Sari de la Mottes. Coach K is here again, because he just is obsessed with me.

Coach K:

I am. I can't get enough of you.

Sari de la Motte:

I can't get enough. And you're wearing a very inappropriate shirt. Is that a sperm on it?

Coach K:

Oh, it's banned, but yes, there is sperm there.

Sari de la Motte:

There is sperm on there, so we now know that you are full of sperm. Okay.

Coach K:

Okay.

Sari de la Motte:

Alrighty. Well, we are talking, speaking of sperm ... No, we're not talking about sperm today. We're talking about, what's the title? Let me look at this title here. Why do most trial attorneys operate like they have ADHD? So we're going to talk about why their brains are functioning like they have ADHD, but we'll also talk about the possibility that maybe they do have ADHD.

Coach K:

It's possible. There's a lot of us out there.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, last year, you were diagnosed and it has made a tremendous difference in all of our lives understanding what the hell is going on with your brain. So we thought we would share this with our lawyers. So welcome Mr. Sperm shirt.

Coach K:

Thank you for having me.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes, you are so welcome. So what the fuck are we talking about? What do you mean that lawyer's brains are like ADHD brains?

Coach K:

So an ADHD brain has an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. So this part of your brain, that's the logical part of your brain that helps you get away from this amygdala, that fear-based and fight or flight, all that kind of stuff.

Sari de la Motte:

Reptile brain.

Coach K:

Reptile brain, yeah. So when it's underdeveloped, it makes you easily overwhelmed, more reactive, fight or flight, all kinds of things that you are usually able to counteract with your prefrontal cortex. It's not bypassed, it's just underdeveloped.

Sari de la Motte:

In people who have ADHD?

Coach K:

People who have ADHD, yes.

Sari de la Motte:

Okay. So we're not saying that necessarily lawyers have underdeveloped prefrontal cortexes.

Coach K:

No.

Sari de la Motte:

But they're acting as if they are.

Coach K:

Yeah, their symptoms are very similar, if not identical.

Sari de la Motte:

So we talk a lot in this work about calming down a juror's brain. And I've often used the, I don't know phrase that their prefrontal cortex has been hijacked. And that is because it bypasses that amygdala just takes over. And now, we're in fight or flight. And so when a juror comes in to jury selection, they are like, "What do I have to do? Why am I here? How do I do it? When do I get to go home?" And all of those factors are lending themselves to the fight or flight response, which means that the prefrontal cortex has gone offline. So why are attorneys in the same boat of this hijacked prefrontal cortex?

Coach K:

Well, because their lives are so busy and they are in these very, let's say, high energy, stressful environments, and they're put into a fight or flight state so much. And their work puts them in an overwhelming situation. So therefore, their brains are like an ADHD brain, even if they don't have it because their prefrontal cortex is hijacked, not underdeveloped, but the same responses are very similar.

Sari de la Motte:

So let's talk a little bit about your journey to finding out that you had ADHD. You were actually diagnosed with it as a child. Yes?

Coach K:

Yeah. So I think I was 10 or 11 and a hyperactive kid, couldn't pay attention in school, was getting in trouble, sent to the principal's office all the time.

Sari de la Motte:

All the time-

Coach K:

All the time.

Sari de la Motte:

... from what I understand.

Coach K:

Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

Sounds about right.

Coach K:

And come to find out ... Well, this was before they called it ADHD. They just called it ADD.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, there were two. There was ADD and ADHD.

Coach K:

Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

One had the hyperactive and one did not.

Coach K:

Which now they've morphed into one thing. So I was diagnosed with it. I was put on some medication that made me feel pretty awful, and then my parents took me off the medication and then we never did much else with it and just kind of went on with our merry lives and didn't address it after that and-

Sari de la Motte:

I don't know that back then there was a lot to do with it. It was basically medicating your kid or not.

Coach K:

Like ADHD coaches and all these different things that they have now weren't a thing back then, because it was such in the early stages. Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

And so around the time that you were getting diagnosed, I was changing my medication and the new provider said, "Why don't we do an ADHD test for you?" Sorry. And I laughed and then I laughed and I laughed some more, because I'm the most organized person. I've got everything down. Y'all know about my Post-it notes. And if you don't know about my Post-it notes, then you need to join the crew, because I love my Post-it notes. Or talk to my assistant, Meg, who is always having the Post-it notes ready for me.

But I said, "Sure, I will humor you." And I took the ADHD test and they also have someone very close to you take it, so you took it for me just like I took it for you. And it came back that I had ADHD and I couldn't believe it. I remember talking to my provider who said, "It's very undiagnosed in women. It's undiagnosed in adults, first of all, but particularly in women. And it doesn't show up in the same way in women." And oftentimes, when you are so organized and you have to have so many things to keep you on track, that in itself can be a sign of ADHD.

Now, we're not saying or suggesting in any way that everybody has ADHD and you all should be medicated. In fact, I tried, medication didn't work for me, and I'm no longer taking it, but I do think that it's something that's important to look at. So coming back.

Coach K:

One thing to speak to, because women are so undiagnosed. Well, you learned to overcompensate and you build these skills that you have built to be able to counteract it. And it's kind of like you do your own ADHD coaching and you don't even know it, but you develop these skills.

Sari de la Motte:

And let's go and dive into the gender situation since you brought us there. I think that's because it i expected that women will be compensating for any undesirable trait because we don't have a fucking choice, do we?

Coach K:

Yep.

Sari de la Motte:

Where boys will be boys and they're just going to be hyperactive and so on and so forth. So, yes, I think that's another reason why it gets undiagnosed. So you went along your merry way and how was your life before diagnosis? What were some of the things that you were struggling with?

Coach K:

Well, one of the key things was addiction. It's something that's pretty well known in the ADHD community that a high percentage, I think it's something really crazy, like close to 80% of people that have ADHD have some kind of addictive disorder or have addictive personalities or just are alcoholic, drug users. And it's because of not having this developed prefrontal cortex that you are so othered and you are just considered a problem, let's say, that you tap out and then what do you do to cope? And a lot of people use drugs.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, and the additional kind of thing there is that, that also arrests the development of your prefrontal cortex. So if it's already undeveloped or underdeveloped, then the arrested development of drugs and alcohol will kind of keep you in this arrested development space.

Coach K:

Yeah, it exacerbates the whole thing. Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

So talk about how you felt. It wasn't like you were labeled with ADHD and people treated you as other. You felt different as a child and even as an adult. Talk about that because I think this is going to be really helpful for our listeners who are like, "Oh my God, that's me." And they've never been able to put a label on it. And as we know as coaches, when you can name something, there's healing just in the naming, even if you don't do anything else. I remember just having an answer for why I felt so much angst and felt so lazy all the time. You look at me and you're like, "You, lazy? What is your problem?" But my brain was struggling so much just naming that I have ADHD even though I choose not to medicate. It has been incredibly helpful. So actually, I'm going to let you answer this question, but talk to us about how you felt before you were diagnosed.

Coach K:

Well, yeah. Even since I can remember in classrooms, there were the kids that could study and learn and get the subjects and concepts. And then there were kids like me, which I don't know, it seemed like I was the only one. It kind of felt that way. And I was a lefty, so they had to finally get me the right scissors and all that kind of stuff, but yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

Didn't one of your teachers try to make you write right-handed? And your mom was like, "Oh, hell no."

Coach K:

My mom went on a tirade, because of that.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, good for her.

Coach K:

And everything was the whole school was switched over to lefty scissors and all kinds of stuff.

Sari de la Motte:

Everybody who's right-handed has to use lefty scissors?

Coach K:

Exactly. That too. That was definitely a thing.

Sari de la Motte:

Wow. That was a big impact your mom had.

Coach K:

I'm sorry, go back to what exactly you were asking.

Sari de la Motte:

What it felt like.

Coach K:

There's the ADHD brain. I lost my train of thought. Yeah, you felt like you ... Okay, I can't do this thing that everybody else can do and the teachers bothered you to, because you were this problem that they couldn't fix, and then you end up acting out. A lot of kids that have ADHD, that's why they're hyperactive, or at least they get sent to the principal's office. There's a lot of them that are just ... There's this attention my mom used to say negative attention. It's something you get some kind of attention from. If you're othered and, oh, we can't deal with you, well, you'll find a way that you'll deal with me.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, and you're also internalizing all of this so you recognize it, I think at the time that you're not like everybody else. And that becomes isolating in itself because you don't know why you aren't like everyone else. And you immediately, it's just to start to think that there's something wrong with you. And then people start treating you like there's something wrong with you.

Coach K:

Yeah, you give them a reason to.

Sari de la Motte:

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Yeah. So when did you, if you don't mind us going there, start your addiction journey?

Coach K:

What started the addiction journey?

Sari de la Motte:

No, when.

Coach K:

When?

Sari de la Motte:

How old were you when you had your first drink, for example?

Coach K:

I think the first drink I had was nine years old.

Sari de la Motte:

Nine years old.

Coach K:

Yeah. And I remember liking it even then.

Sari de la Motte:

And do you remember what sent you there? Was it this thing of I don't want to feel this way anymore?

Coach K:

No, it was the cousin or family member. Somebody like it was there, or, "Hey, try that." And the kid drinks. Isn't that funny? And I remember liking the taste, liking the way it felt, and that stuck to me.

Sari de la Motte:

And so how did that progress over time?

Coach K:

It was a way to cope or a way to just do things that were more difficult that I couldn't do, or this made me feel better. It even gave me confidence. I didn't have any confidence because I was not like everybody else, then I would drink and I felt confident. It was liquid courage.

Sari de la Motte:

So was it just alcohol?

Coach K:

Oh, no, no. It wasn't just alcohol. I tried all kinds of different drugs, but the one that really stuck was weed. I was a big pot smoker.

Sari de la Motte:

And this kind of all culminated when you were 21, 22?

Coach K:

21.

Sari de la Motte:

And what happened then? Of course, I know the answer, but I'm interviewing you for this one.

Coach K:

Yeah. I ran into a tree going 65 miles an hour. I blacked out from alcohol and weed and I had to be cut out of the car with the jaws of life. And, yeah, it was a horrible experience. I woke up in the hospital with policemen standing around me.

Sari de la Motte:

Broke your femur in five places.

Coach K:

I broke my femur in five places.

Sari de la Motte:

Have a rod in your leg to this day.

Coach K:

The fact that I only broke my femur and also the fact that I didn't bleed out was miraculous. I almost was out of the regular neighborhood going up Coldwater Canyon. I could have gone off the hill or I could have just, nobody would've heard me and I would've died. I wouldn't have made it.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. You actually had a passenger in the car.

Coach K:

I did.

Sari de la Motte:

Who got out a few just mere moments before.

Coach K:

I was sideswiping cars and freaked out the passenger, and they got out and ran.

Sari de la Motte:

Thank God.

Coach K:

Thank you. Yeah, thank God that happened. Yeah.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. But you still didn't stop using it at that point?

Coach K:

No. I had about a nine-month-long hiatus, but I got right back into it. And then it was pills because the pain from my leg.

Sari de la Motte:

And the reason I'm so glad that you're willing to go here.

Coach K:

I'm in recovery. I'm an AA member.

Sari de la Motte:

How long have you been sober?

Coach K:

I've been sober this time and it's sticking this time. I've been sober for 16 months.

Sari de la Motte:

That's fantastic. Congratulations. I don't want to get emotional. I'm going to stay in interview mode and not wife mode.

Coach K:

Okay.

Sari de la Motte:

But I think that's amazing. And so having gone down this journey with you, there were a lot of starts and stops, starts and stops as there often are on your journey to sobriety. But I think as a wife, speaking as a wife, I don't think I realized because I grew up very different. I grew up in a religious home. My parents never drank. I had never done drugs, never to this day, still haven't done. I think I tried once. I couldn't even do it. I'm like, "What am I supposed to do with the smoke from the ..." I don't know.

Coach K:

I grew up in a Hollywood family, California sober where everybody smoked weed.

Sari de la Motte:

Absolutely. And so I think this was a real barrier between us. I was like, "Why can't you just quit?" And you're like, "It's not a problem." And then even when you said it was a problem, that was still a difficult thing to overcome as addiction is, but I think it's not until we added this piece, this ADHD piece to bring us back to what we were talking about, that's really what ended up changing everything. Speak about that.

Coach K:

Well, you spoke to naming earlier, the power of that. I mean, it's like in coaching when you're able to just articulate what you're hearing and name something for another person and how enlightening that can be. Well, this is when you start getting this vernacular, all these different words and things that you didn't know that were associated with your brain that makes it so that it's not a problem. You're not a problem. It's something to point out that you can work with. And you can go, "Oh, okay. It's that thing. Oh, it's just my ADHD. I can work with this." And once I started noticing that, I started noticing patterns and patterns that were making me drink or fill in the blank for whatever habits that weren't really serving me. The naming was the biggest part, I'll tell you right now.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. And I think for me as watching this from the outside, I mean obviously, I was there with you, but I'm not going through it like you're going through it. It was, well, why can't you just stop drinking? And it wasn't until we were recognizing why you were drinking is because your brain was not working with you and because you felt so attacked by it in many ways. "Why can't I remember things?"

And then you and I would get into lots of arguments about, "Hey, I've told you this a thousand times." And you're like, "Oh God, I'm so sorry." And I'm like, "Why can't you just get it together?" And then that led to drinking. It was like that was just such a light bulb moment I think for both of us to be like, "Oh my goodness." Obviously, addiction has all kinds of facets to it, but I think for us particularly, it made sense to me. It made sense to you. It gave me a lot more compassion instead of being like you don't care, because that's the story that I was making up. He doesn't care. He doesn't care enough to actually be consistent in these areas when in actuality, your brain works differently. It's even different from my brain, and we both have ADHD. It shows up differently.

Coach K:

ADHD shows up differently in everybody. I was just going to speak, there's the brain fog thing and overwhelm that happens with ADHD just because it takes so much more work for us to just do a lot of basic tasks. And by the end of the day, you're exhausted throughout the day.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes.

Coach K:

And there's a lot of times where you're just tapping like, "I can't do this anymore." And that can feed addiction or whatever.

Sari de la Motte:

Or fights, because you're so spent by the end of the day.

Coach K:

Oh, yeah. It's very reminiscent of an attorney, because an attorney has the brain fog and the fatigue and the overwhelm because of their jobs, even if they don't have ADHD and then they are more prone to addiction.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. That makes so much sense, because it's mirroring the ADHD brain in terms of that prefrontal cortex being taken offline.

Coach K:

Yeah, it's hijacked, taken offline, whatever it is, but it's the same side effect that happens. And what happens is there's a community of people because of that, that have these addiction issues, and I feel for them. I think one of the major reasons why I got into coaching, but I got into coaching with trial attorneys is I was like, "These fucking people think just like me. They're in the same boat as me. I can help them." And I have empathy and compassion for them, because I feel their struggle every day. I get it. And, yeah, there's a lot of people that are attorneys, trial attorneys that have addiction problems and it's a real thing. It's totally understandable too.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, 16 months ago, you stopped drinking and everything was better, right, immediately?

Coach K:

If your whole life and body is on fire is better, then-

Sari de la Motte:

I think last year was probably the hardest year of our entire marriage. I'm so glad that we got through it and are getting through it. But you had brought an analogy back from AA meeting and you attend three meetings a week that's been such a great place for you to heal. But the analogy you brought back, and it made so much sense when we were talking about this, is like you're driving in this car and you've got all this baggage in the back seat. It's almost like you're driving almost to get away from the baggage, right?

Even though it's in the car with you, it doesn't make any sense, but you just think, "If I keep driving, it won't catch up with me." And then the minute you stop drinking, it's like you slam the brakes on and all the baggage-

Coach K:

All the baggage just slams into you.

Sari de la Motte:

... comes forward. And I just thought that is such a perfect example of the journey we've been on the last 16 months because ... Not even 16, because it's been so much about in the last several months, but it's that wow, now, you had to deal with all that stuff. But a big part of that was not just stuff, but really understanding who you are, how your brain works, and having compassion for yourself. And so you got medicated and like I said, I got too, it didn't work for me, it's working for you. But it wasn't until you found your ADHD coach, I think, that really things started to come together. Why is that? How does she help?

Coach K:

She helps because I come in and I say ... Even standard stuff, what's going on in my day, and I don't know why, and she'll be able to name it, but then she also has practical ways to work with it. And she also has very healthy ways to approach it so that you're not self-flagellating and creating that self-fulfilling prophecy or self-sabotage where it happens and then you beat yourself up. You're curious about it. You become this curious observer like I do in coaching with my clients. You do with your own issues with your brain. And it's like, "Okay, I can work with this. Okay, that's that. All right, what are we going to do about that?"

And I bring it in, it's you're able to put it outside and say to my coach, "This is the issue here and I want to figure out how to work through this." Now I suck and I keep doing this and I'm MMS and I can't figure this out. It's always done from this observation, curious perspective that is so refreshing.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, I think there's a theme here too, because we find whether our clients have ADHD or not and probably most of them don't, but we find that they are very hard on themselves and that they think on some level that helps them. That if they weren't hard on themselves, that somehow they become these lazy pieces of shit that would never get anything done. And as we continue to tell them that they need to have self-love, they need to be their biggest cheerleader, and that's where all greatness comes. "No, no, no, that's too woo-woo. That won't work for me." All of this.

Talk a little bit about how destructive it is and how long it kept you in that space of not getting well, whether that's getting well in terms of executive functioning or addiction by being so down on yourself. I feel like that's been the biggest thing of your healing is stopping with the negative self-talk. Talk about that.

Coach K:

Yeah, it's this habit that's so ingrained that you do something and even simple things like being in a meeting and you're not focused or doing things like the other people around you, even something simple like that, you say, "Well, it's just because I am never going to do that and they can do that, but I'll always have this issue."

Instead of looking at it in a way of accepting and then having compassion and then realizing that you can do something about it, that there's this real empowerment to it. But the other way around is this cycle of, "Well, maybe I can do it. Maybe I will figure it out. No, I didn't figure it out. Oh, I suck." Rinse and repeat. It's just so exhausting where within self-acceptance is self-compassion, self-love. If you can just accept something that just is and be able to work with that, that's the baseline that creates the homeostasis that's needed.

Sari de la Motte:

I've never seen anyone so self-destruct with negative talk like with you. And I say that because the minute that you ... It's one thing to be like, "You'll just stop doing that." But when you actually had a name for, "Oh, here's why I'm feeling the way that I'm feeling. There's a reason for this." And you stopped. And again, regardless of the reason anybody stops for you, it was being able to name it.

It has changed everything. It absolutely changed our marriage, it's changed your life, it's changed everything. And I just want to really highlight that, because it doesn't do anyone, any of our listeners any good to continually talk about themselves in the way that they do. It absolutely does the opposite and keeps them where they are, where they're always feeling overwhelmed, where they're always feeling stressed out and then they always feel like it's all their fault and nobody else is going through this except for them. Everybody else has it figured out.

So you have three things that you wanted to share today about whether you have ADHD or not. You kind of manage your prefrontal cortex so it won't be taken hostage and go offline. So what's one of the first ones?

Coach K:

Yeah. The first one, and this translates to attorneys too, because you're overwhelmed. The first one is routine. And routine has proven to be something that is ... I mean, it creates this foundation for everything else. And AA was one of them, just going to those three meetings, but having a spiritual practice and waking up in the morning and doing the exercises, taking the dog out.

Sari de la Motte:

Morning routines.

Coach K:

Morning routines, and doing these things that are for just me first thing, taking care of myself. Just me, taking care of myself first thing, because that's something that you completely forget about ADHD brain, trial attorney that everyone else. You're trying to appeal to appease help, whatever it is, everyone else, and you forget about yourself. So that first major routine is for you to take care of you. And then building upon that, having these routines that are every day, this certain thing you do that's for you or for the structure of your life every day. Those routines are huge.

Sari de la Motte:

This is what I find is missing from most of our clients' lives, because we work on this with them and coaching if they don't have a routine for anything, most of them. They fit in clients, client meetings or meetings with their staff. Whenever there's time on their schedule, they will try to get some exercise in if they can. Oh, yeah, I can do a deposition on Thursday. And even if you're not doing self-care during that time, we obviously think you should be.

But even if you just have a routine that you follow on the daily and it's just in the morning and the evening, it gives a rhythm to your life that your brain calms down and can come back online. Just having that rhythm. I've talked to my listeners for years. I only see clients on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays. I don't do it on Mondays and Fridays. I only have my staff meetings on Monday afternoons. I do my business development on Monday morning. There's something to be said even about non-self-care activities of having a rhythm that the brain really enjoys and can help calm down a lot of the confusion and overwhelm. How would you suggest people start to get a routine of any kind?

Coach K:

Choose something. Just one thing. Just start with one thing.

Sari de la Motte:

And do it on repeat?

Coach K:

Yes, do it on repeat. And like the book, Atomic Habits, keep it simple. Don't make it something that's really, really huge or maybe even insurmountable. Make it simple. It helps if you can, from the book Atomic Habits, James Clear, you can have it stacked. So you stack something with that makes it kind of rewarding, so that'll reinforce it. So you can continue the habit, but the main thing is just keep it simple and choose one thing and start with that, but do it every day.

Sari de la Motte:

I think one thing they could choose from those of us who own our own businesses, I was just talking to a client today, which is you have all these plans of what you're going to do that day, but then everybody needs a piece of you. And so, one thing right off the bat that I think I want to think about is just choose times that you're going to take questions and deal with that kind of stuff.

My door's open every Tuesday and Thursday morning from 9:00 to 11:00. Outside of those times, unless this is an emergency, handle it your fucking self. And just carving out some time where you're giving your team routines so that you're not constantly being bombarded all the time, having to answer questions and then never get any time to yourself.

Coach K:

Well, and there's a piece in there with the team that I'll talk about, which is the third step.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, let's go to the second one so we can get to the third one. What's the second one?

Coach K:

The second step is intention. And this is something that people talk about being intentional and intention, and it seems lofty maybe for some. It's just making sure that you are intending to do something, following through with it, but being very mindful about it. So if you want to do this routine, you need to know why you want to do it, and you need to make sure that-

Sari de la Motte:

What's it serving?

Coach K:

What's it serving? And you need to make sure that you have the intention to do it. And there's intentions in all kinds of ways. Every day, I go take the dog, I step out or walk towards the water's edge. I know this sounds pretty, whatever.

Sari de la Motte:

And you sent me a picture.

Coach K:

Yes, I sent you a picture if it's a beautiful morning.

Sari de la Motte:

I'm asleep most of the time, but yes.

Coach K:

But I set my intention for the day and I say those words out loud and they are connected to my values, things that are really important to me, what my day data look like, all these things. But I set these intentions at the beginning of the day. I write them down and then I look throughout my day and see what I am doing that's intentional here that's connected to this.

Sari de la Motte:

I just love that.

Coach K:

Yeah, these intentional acts, what they are is it's building and choice in your life and empowers. You do have control of situations in your own life.

Sari de la Motte:

And it's a reminder of what's important.

Coach K:

Yes, it reminds you of what's important. You'll do that first, and that is you have to put your oxygen mask on first.

Sari de la Motte:

So number three.

Coach K:

Number three is design. So if you want to do all these things, I work with my clients all the time on if there's something, a habit that they really want to create, instill, ingrain, create that neural pathway is make sure that you have the support around it. So if you don't have the support around it, it can make it very difficult. Doesn't mean that you won't do it, but if you have a person that's an accountability partner or if you have somebody on your team, your staff. Say you're saying like what Sari just said, so you have certain hours that you just need to work. You want to be doing your trial prep or whatever it is.

Sari de la Motte:

Deep work.

Coach K:

Deep work, and you keep getting interrupted. Well, there's certain things you can do. You can talk to your staff and say, "Hey, these hours, this is the reason why-"

Sari de la Motte:

I'd like to design.

Coach K:

"I'd like to design with you. And what do you think you are going to need at that time? Because I want to make sure that whatever you need, we can address that at a certain point." And how do you think you're going to be able to ... What's your role in the situation? What do you expect? Just designing with jurors. But when you get into that dialogue, then it empowers that relationship around the support that you need. And then you have somebody there that's going to make sure that helps make that happen.

Sari de la Motte:

Well, and also, just between you and I, you have designed several things. One of the things that we've found out through your ADHD journey is that a lot of people with ADHD have impulse control. And so you have said to me, you've designed with me, there are times where I will say something without thinking. And so I want you to know that I don't mean to do that, but at other times, if I feel I'm going to do that, I'm going to step outside of the room and I don't want you to feel like I'm abandoning you or I'm leaving the conversation. I'll tell you, I'm like, "I'm going to step out for a minute." But you design that ahead of time instead of in the middle of an argument or a discussion, it's like, "Bye and you walk out." So those things too can be very helpful in designing with people around you what you need so you can manage the overwhelm and the stress.

Coach K:

Yeah. Well, and you get clear on the boundaries that you have and the things that you want to be doing. And then you design with the people around you to make sure that they can be so.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. No man is an island.

Coach K:

And if everybody tunes into their own radio station, WIFM, they're not going to know. They're not going to need this. But if you expressly have this communication with them and you work together on it, you can make sure this happens. And it also takes me to the way that the brain works. You talked about energy cycles with your calendar and your scheduling. The way the brain works is peak performance is 60 to 90 minutes with your brain. And if you go beyond that point, you're really, really going to start backsliding. It's really counterproductive for you, especially if you're normally in this state of overwhelm or you have a very busy job like trial attorneys. So 90 minute blocks at the most is the way you should be blocking out your calendar so that you have the peak performance of your brain.

Sari de la Motte:

What about working 16 hours a day? Doesn't the brain love that?

Coach K:

There's a certain part where your brain just taps out.

Sari de la Motte:

That's right. And you're not learning anymore. You're not doing anymore. And I've heard from so many attorneys who have gone through our programs, they're like, "Sari, I don't prep as much as I used to." I mean, I prep. Of course, prep is so important, we know that, but not to the point where it's so overdone because I'm just worried and I'm doing it out of fear and I find my performances better. I'm sharper. And I'm like, "Yeah, because you're not shoving it all in there and not getting sleep and all of the things."

Coach K:

And if you're very intentional about what you're doing, exactly what you want to be doing, you put that on your calendar in a certain way and your brain is the most efficient it can be. You're going to get a lot more things done in a shorter amount of time more efficiently, and you're going to feel a whole hell of a lot better and have a more fulfilling life. Fill in the blank of all the good things that I could say as a coach.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. Yes. So if someone's listening to this episode, and we're going to do another episode on ADHD, if not a couple more. And so remind me if we're not supposed to be talking about this today, but if somebody's like, "I might have ADHD," what would you say to tell them? What should they do?

Coach K:

If they might not have ADHD?

Sari de la Motte:

They might have it.

Coach K:

If they might have it? Well, if you think you might have it with what you're hearing, you can take simple tests online. You can just search like, "Do I have ADHD?" And they have tests online, but they also have facilities that do these tests that are-

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah, that's where we suggest you go.

Coach K:

That's where we suggest you go. This will kind of point you in the right direction going, "Okay, well, if I check a lot of these boxes, well, I probably have this." It's what I did. It's what Sari did. And then you find one of these facilities that does the testing, and then you find a doctor that either can prescribe medication and maybe you will need medication, maybe you won't. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to have it.

Sari de la Motte:

It doesn't necessarily mean you have to.

Coach K:

No, you don't have to. But I urge you, if you find out that you're diagnosed with ADHD and you have it, get an ADHD coach.

Sari de la Motte:

Yes. Yes. Do you want to name your coach?

Coach K:

My coach's name is Linda Hoffman, and she's based in Canada, and she is ... I'm getting teary how fucking awesome she is.

Sari de la Motte:

She's phenomenal.

Coach K:

She is one of the most insightful humans I've ever met and an amazing ADHD coach. She's been doing it since they first started diagnosing people basically.

Sari de la Motte:

Yeah. To the point that you even thought about, "Maybe I want to start coaching with ADHD." It's amazing. We'll let you know if Kevin ends up doing that. And, of course, he has clients that do have an ADHD and has helped them, but more formally. So we'll put that in the show notes, so if people want to check her out, there are other resources too out there, and we'll collect some of those. I just want to say I'm so proud of you and thank you for sharing your story today. We will have more coming up, but thank you Coach K for being here as always.

Coach K:

My pleasure.

Sari de la Motte:

And we will talk to you next week.

Thank you for listening to the very end of this episode, A+. I'm going to ask you to subscribe to the podcast. Whether you're one of the weirdos that like to watch it on YouTube or you just listen, make sure you hit that subscribe button. It helps the podcast grow and let other people find me y'all. But don't stop there. Be sure to leave me a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. We want this podcast to reach as many ears and eyes as possible. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye everybody.