Sari Swears Podcast: The Tool I Use for Difficult Conversations

Ever been in a conversation that went sideways fast? 🫣

You had good intentions… but suddenly it felt like you were speaking different languages?

Yeah. Been there.

That’s WHY I’m dropping this week’s episode: How to Master Difficult Conversations: The Tool I Swear By.

It’s based on a life-changing framework I got from my very first coach and I still use it TO. THIS. DAY (yeah it's that good).

Learn how to STAY grounded, clear, and powerful when sh*t hits the fan.

Inside this episode, I’m sharing:

✨ What most people get wrong when trying to “tend to the relationship”
✨ Why not knowing your outcome can derail the entire conversation
✨ The surprising reason you might be avoiding hard convos (it’s not what you think)

And that’s JUST the beginning.

I walk you through the full 4-step Focus Tool that’ll help you prepare and show up with presence — whether it’s your co-counsel, your kid, or your partner.

(Or save it for when you’re about to text “we need to talk…”)

Tune in NOW! 🎧

Love,
Sari 💖

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"Just because you're having a hard conversation doesn't mean it has to be a hard experience. When you're grounded in clarity, when you know what you're asking for, what your emotions are trying to tell you, and how you're contributing to the dynamic—you can show up with compassion and confidence."
sari de la motte

transcription

Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Sari Swears. Sari de la Motte here with you today. How are you doing today? And more importantly, do any of you have to have difficult conversations? Well, guess what? We're talking about a very specific tool that I got from the very first coach I ever hired that I use with tons of my clients, and I wanted to share it with you today. Before we do that, I wanted to make sure that first of all, you see this shirt that I'm wearing. I solemnly swear a lot. I just love this shirt. And I look a little bit like Fame. You know those of you who are really young and don't remember the 80s, this is the kind of shirt that they would wear back in the 80s when I was growing up. But I saw this shirt and I had to get it. I think it's on our website, too, but that's important.

Also, it is important to sign up at SariSwears.com/h2h, like the number two, h2hshit. That is where you can go and sign yourself up to hear from us on the various things that you want to hear from us about. So you don't have to hear about all of the things, you can go there and choose which things you want to hear about. And finally, a reminder about our brand new freebie, eight strategies for eight figures. You want to go and get the first three for free. You can do that at SariSwears.com/8strategies. I think that's what it is. Eight strategies. Could be wrong about that. Probably should have looked that up. But it's one of those things, eight figures, eight strategies, one of those. Try to figure it out. Okay, let's get to the tool that I want to share with all of you.

So let's talk about difficult conversations. What makes them difficult? I think for a lot of people, we're afraid that we are going to upset the other person by having the conversation. And so we end up not having the conversation and that, in itself, is a problem. So let's talk about why these conversations go wrong, first of all. So one of the things or one of the reasons why they go wrong, I think this is the number one reason, is that we confuse the relationship with the issue at hand. This is something I learned way back when I was still training with Michael Grinder, who is the brother of John Grinder. And John Grinder and somebody Bandler ... I can't remember his first name right now. But Grinder and Bandler are the ones that came up with NLP or neuro-linguistic programming, which a lot of people use for influence or all of the things.

That's not how I use it. And I actually worked with Michael on how to do presentation skills work and group coaching and those kinds of things. But he really helped me recognize, it's one of the things that he teaches, the difference between relationship and issue. So every single communication situation that we are in, we are either dealing with an issue or tending to the relationship. And the problem occurs when we get them mixed up. Meaning when we try to bring the relationship into our issue-oriented conversation, that is when feelings get hurt. And vice versa, when we're trying to go to an issue, but the person really needs us to be in a relationship, that also gets us in trouble. And so by separating those two things, that's how we can have more conversations and not make them personal.

I used to do training ... I should do it for my H2H crew. I keep threatening to do it and then I forget, and then I remember, and then I forget again. Chemo brain. You guys, it's a thing. I'm still having the chemo brain. But there's a training that I used to do called Don't Shoot the Messenger, and it was all about how to focus the conversation on the issue itself. And so we're not going to talk about that today necessarily. I'm going to talk about this different tool, but some of the things in that training were to not make eye contact. Have a third thing you're looking at. A piece of paper, a vibe board, a whiteboard I guess is more old school, a flip chart, whatever it may be that whatever the issue is between you, actually have something between you.

So that becomes the thing that you are looking at together so that you're not across from each other, making eye contact, and making the other person feel like this is a personal thing versus this is a thing with the issue at hand. I always remember that one. I think it's such good advice. I'm a very direct person, a direct supervisor, direct boss, and I always say when I'm in issue mode, which is normally when I'm here at work and I'm direct, don't take it personally because I'm just in issue mode. But when we're not, we're hanging out in the morning getting coffee, having lunch, that's the relationship. Sorry. Don't mix them because you will be unhappy here because you'll think I'm always mad at you just because I'm being direct about the issue.

The second thing, or second reason why I think we struggle with difficult conversations ... The first thing, and I think this is for most people, is because we're afraid the other person's going to be upset or there's going to be an outcome that we don't like from the conversation, but we don't know what we want out of the conversation. I think that's a huge one, is that we're not even sure what it is, what success looks like, I should say. And so we go into the conversation and it's messy because we haven't taken the time, which is the tool I'm going to share with you today, to really get clear about what success looks like. And I think the third reason that we are afraid to have these difficult conversations is that we are afraid we are going to lose something that we care about.

And I know for me, that's been a big one, is that I have at times not spoken up or chosen not to speak up because I was afraid that once I made it clear what I was and was not okay with, for me, that's a boundary issue, that the other person would leave. And that has happened in my life before, and it has happened again in various scenarios. And what I realized is I was making up a story that said, anytime I needed to enforce a boundary, I would lose something or someone that I cared about. And although that has happened, what I've also recognized is that not having the boundary or not enforcing the boundary was actually the worst of the two evils. Meaning hiding what we're feeling, not being clear about what is or isn't okay for us personally will deteriorate the relationship anyway, regardless of whether we have the conversation or not, because we're not being authentically true to ourselves.

And I know some of you might be thinking you, Sari, have a problem being authentic and true to yourself? Yeah, I do, too. Especially when it's going to cost me something or potentially cost me something that I love. So I think those are the three big ones, right? Why don't we want to have these conversations? We're afraid the other person's going to get upset. We're not sure what we even want out of the, I'm sorry, out of the conversation. And we're afraid that when we do have the conversation, that we're going to lose something that's important to us. So why then have the conversations? Some of this is already built into what I just said, but the first thing is clear. I heard that the first time, and I thought that's so true. Oftentimes, I have said that I want to be even more clear with friends and family ... I haven't always held myself to that for the reasons I just mentioned, than with non friends or family because those relationships are even more important. And yet most people tend to play loosely goosey with that.

If you borrow money, oh, we don't really need a contract. If you work together in some way, oh, we can figure out the details as we go. And I have found from personal experience, that does not work. That it is important that you be more clear than less in personal relationships because there is so much more at stake. But in any type of conversation or relationship, clear is kind. Also, dealing with the issue is going to serve the relationship. Whether that means the relationship ends, which if it's going to end over this conversation, then it probably should have ended, or it's going to take the relationship in a new and better way. Facing that difficult thing you have to talk about is always going to be the right choice. Especially when you have the tool I'm going to share with you today, because again, letting it fester is not serving the relationship. Finally, you are perhaps avoiding short-term stress by not having that conversation, but you are then elongating your stress and having it go much longer than it needs to go if you had just had the conversation in the first place.

So you're probably at this point going, what the heck is the tool that you want to share with us? And so here's the tool. And it was shared with me by my first coach, Shell Tain, who actually passed away this year, which was so sad. But she was my first coach. She's the one that turned me on to CTI Co-Active Coaching, which I'm now certified in and work with my clients in. And so thank you, Shell, wherever you are, this is for you. And I just loved the first time she shared this with me. It's called the Focus Tool, and it's a tool to help you focus before having the conversation that you are about to have. So the first piece, and there's really only four pieces here, and I'll elongate on some of these. But the first piece is the question. She titles this issue. But the question underneath The Issue, and I'll go ahead and post this whole tool in the show notes, is what do you want to create?

So she says, write a sentence about your goal or intention for the interaction. So this is that piece that I was talking about where you don't really know what it is that you want to get out of the conversation. Let's say that you are increasingly upset with an employee, for example. No, this is not a personal example. Those of you who are listening who work for me. But let's say that you are upset with an employee for some reason, and it's been going on, this behavior, over and over again, and you got to figure it out, you need to talk to them. You need to ask yourself, what problem am I solving for? What is it that I'm actually trying to fix here? I know I want the behavior to stop, but you have to think about why is the behavior happening in the first place, and why is it rubbing me the wrong way?

Maybe there's something that I'm doing that's causing this. Maybe they're in the wrong seat. So for example, in our business, we have the right seat or the right people in the right seats. Sometimes you have the wrong people in your business, they shouldn't be working there at all. But sometimes you have the right people in the wrong seats, meaning if they were in a different position or had some things taken off their plate and massaged in this way, and we're always doing that here because I always want everyone in my organization working within their zone of genius. So maybe that's an issue. And so you need to create an intention or goal for this difficult conversation that you're going to have, so you know what it is you are solving for. So maybe it's just to find out what is going on. Maybe you already know what is going on and you want to brainstorm solutions, whatever it may be, you need to get really clear before you go into it.

And oftentimes when I'm coaching with clients, I will take this out and we'll work through it together. I'm like, okay, so we're going to meet with co-counsel. What are we hoping to get out of the interaction? And so it might be something like, I want to redesign our co-counsel agreement because I feel like I'm doing more of the work, and I need to get more of the fee. Great. So that's the goal of this interaction is to redesign? Yes. Awesome. Now we're done with number one. Number two in the Focus Tool is called The Context. And what she says here is to list three ways of being that you are going to have to emulate during the interaction in order for your goal to become a reality. She gives a hint. Hint, it's most likely that you will need to be receptive to being ... Let me say that again.

It's most likely that you will need to be receptive to being how you want others to be. For example, if you need them to be open and vulnerable, you have to set the stage by being open and vulnerable yourself. Spoken like a true coach. So I love this question because I think we tend to go immediately to, what do I say or what am I going to do? And this takes you to a being space. Which is if I am going to be as successful as possible by having this conversation around let's say co-counseling and redesigning it, how do I have to be in order to have that conversation? So you might say things like, I'm going to have to be calm, I'm going to have to be receptive to hearing their side, and I'm going to have to be open to maybe redesigning it in a way that I didn't think of before that maybe they would bring up.

So there's your three things. So in your scenario, once you figure out the goal for interaction, you're going to say, okay, for me to be able to achieve this in the conversation ... And this doesn't mean ultimately that you're going to get what you want, but how do you want the conversation to go? And again, I think her hint is beautiful. If you're afraid to talk to someone about something that they've done that's upset you, and you think about how you hope that they are in hearing why this thing has upset you or hurt you, you have to think about I need to be those things too if I want them to be those things. Number three, The Boundaries. Two very important questions here. The first one is, what are you willing to risk? And the second one is, what are you not willing to risk?

I'll tell you, out of these four questions, when I'm using this tool for my clients, this one's a big one because it gets us clear right away. Let's say we're back to the co-counsel agreement, and you are willing to risk maybe doing the opening statement, for example. But what you are not willing to risk is getting less than 30% of the fee or whatever it may be. I'm just throwing things out. So this is a great way to get clear about what's really important to you. And so think about this. When you walk away from this interaction, will you have felt good about the things that you risked, gave up? And will you feel good about the things that you said, no, I'm not budging on that? Doesn't have to always be about what makes the other person happy. In fact, I don't think it ever needs to be about that. It's about what will serve you and your intention in this conversation.

And then number four, which I think is also amazing, is how will you know when you have succeeded? What will happen? Her hint here is, excuse me, be specific. Make this a measurable result, not just how you would like to feel at the end of the exchange. So I remember I was using this tool before I had a difficult conversation with a family member once. And when I got to this question, and I was journaling on it, I said, man, how could I know that I've succeeded? And I said, the other person, my family member will say the words, I'm so relieved. And my friends, that is exactly what they said after we had the conversation and then I knew we were successful. So for you, it might be that we've redesigned it in a way that works for both of us. And maybe there's some caveats in there where you're like, and I haven't given up more than 30%, or I'm still able to do the voir dire or whatever it may be.

So I hope that having this tool will give you some more courage to have those difficult conversations. Because I find that putting off those conversations and/or not thinking through them before getting into them is what causes a lot of us to have angst. And you can use this focus tool before you talk to opposing counsel. You can use this before you go into a mediation. You can use this when you're trying to decide whether or not you should settle the case or take it to trial. I mean it doesn't fit everything perfectly, but I think there's some great questions in here for you to consider the next time you have a difficult conversation. Now, some of the things that I was sharing with you about that Don't Shoot the Messenger workshop that I used to give, you can also use here. So I would suggest not sitting across from each other. Don't call someone into your office and sit behind your desk and have this big power play.

Sit side by side. Go out to a conference table so that it doesn't feel like a power play. Have a piece of paper on it with some information that you can both look at. One of the things I taught in that seminar is when you're talking about the issue, you're looking at the paper. But when you're talking about the solution, you're looking at each other. So that's reinforcing that this piece of the issue is here, it's not personal, but you and I, as you look at the person, are going to figure this out. I hope that's helpful and I hope you're enjoying the new Sari Swears podcast. If you wouldn't mind, please go wherever you listen to your podcast and give us a review. We would love to hear what you think about the new look, the new song, the new everything, the new title. All right, talk soon.

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